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Dungeons & Loot 🏛️​​​​​​​

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Hey all 😄

I wanted to hear everyone's opinion about dungeons and loot distribution rules. If dungeons become available to us every x level until max level, should those just be the introduction dungeons and then at max level harder dungeons will unlock? Or should we revisit the old dungeons but in a harder difficulty? Or maybe a bit of both, unlocking additional dungeons after reaching max level but it's item level locked and therefor we need to run the old dungeons in a higher difficulty?

Also how should the loot work? Do we like the classic approach of one item dropping per boss drops and everyone rolls for it? Or should we have a personal loot system where it's RNG whether you get an item or not, the chance then increased at the next boss when you didn't get loot at the previous boss.

Or should it be an auction system where if an item drops, players can bid on it and the highest bidder will receive the item?

Would love to hear your opinions!

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Personally i like the hardcore aspect of it. Have a dungeon be very difficult but still doable (since its not a raid), and the higher level you become the more dungeons you can do. 

 

However on the loot, i definitely love the bidder looting better. You get a drop, everyone bids or skips it. the bidders (class locked maybe if its class specific item, so only those classes can bid), will have to compete between eachother. the highest bidder wins.

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11 hours ago, SunnlightBro said:

You get a drop, everyone bids or skips it. the bidders (class locked maybe if its class specific item, so only those classes can bid), will have to compete between eachother. the highest bidder wins.

You just described Tera's item rolling system and it's honestly the best option for fair item rolling.

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I enjoy having harder versions of dungeons. It's easier on development too.

Having a few only max level makes sense but making low levels accessable via hard mode also makes a bigger dungeon pool.

I'd like to see dungeon drops be rolls, personal loot is fun in wow but I love that element of stress when you roll against ppl for it, plus you also see who the douches are and who the really nice ppl are

Edited by Yaz87

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I think I'm with the majority here with enjoying the thought of dungeons unlocking at every X level so we have something else to look forward to with leveling other than more stats and skills and harder difficulties of dungeons being available to players at the right level too.

Though as for the item distribution systems I'm not too sure on one hand I love bidding systems for loot though the only bad side of this is the players who will probably grief through having lots of money saved up to then pinch gear they no way need just to well as I said cause grief. Though honestly I still see a bidding system for loot far better than personal loot as it pushes for people to actually talk and discuss about the item before everyone starts pouring tons of money in to it.


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14 hours ago, SunnlightBro said:

Personally i like the hardcore aspect of it. Have a dungeon be very difficult but still doable (since its not a raid), and the higher level you become the more dungeons you can do. 

 

However on the loot, i definitely love the bidder looting better. You get a drop, everyone bids or skips it. the bidders (class locked maybe if its class specific item, so only those classes can bid), will have to compete between eachother. the highest bidder wins.

I like this idea, having only the classes that can use the item bid on it removes a lot of my issues with a bidding system. I dont like the bidding system normally due to griefers bidding on items they literally can not use for the sake of raising the cost and/or just griefing other players.

 

Personally, I like a mix of personal loot for some dungeons  just to get some starting gear and as you move into harder raids make it a bidding system.

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I liked the way it was in Lineage 2 in that you could set the item distribution when creating a party. They had options like Finders Keepers (loot went to whoever picked it up), By turn (No matter who picked the loot up it was distributed by turn between party members, one after the other) and Random (Distributed randomly).

The reasons I like this system are because you can set it to random or turn based to distribute it fairly between the party or if you're in a clan party for instance the leader can pick it all up then distribute it based on who needs what etc.

If you're with random people in a party and get items you don't need it gives you the opportunity to sell it to someone in the party that needs it or even give it to them for free if you're feeling generous or you can sell it on the marketplace for a profit. A healthy economy is a great thing to have in MMO's.

 

As for the dungeons, personally I'm not a fan of instanced stuff and loved being able to just wander my way into any dungeon that I wanted to albeit at a danger to myself if I went into one that was obviously too high for me and instantly died to mobs.

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Personally I would like you to just be able to enter any dungeon whenever you want, and have it be completely open world where if another party was in it you would run into them and have to fight with them or group up with them. However there is the obvious problem of people just waiting until a group is almost dead then wiping them and stealing the boss and loot. If anyone could come up with a prevention method for that it would be fantastic. I could potentially see people leaving members outside of the dungeon/raid zone to guard the party from people trying to ruin it for them. I feel like this could lead to very interesting interactions. 

 

As for loot drops I would like to see personal loot drops for standard, more common, gear. As for the rarer drops and better gear I would like it to be a bidding system where only the people who are able to use the item are able to bid for it. This would lead to people being able to progress their gear with personal drops, while the best gear would be obtained by the people who are most committed to getting the best items possible. 

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23 hours ago, Lunar said:

Personally I would like you to just be able to enter any dungeon whenever you want, and have it be completely open world where if another party was in it you would run into them and have to fight with them or group up with them. However there is the obvious problem of people just waiting until a group is almost dead then wiping them and stealing the boss and loot. If anyone could come up with a prevention method for that it would be fantastic. I could potentially see people leaving members outside of the dungeon/raid zone to guard the party from people trying to ruin it for them. I feel like this could lead to very interesting interactions. 

 

As for loot drops I would like to see personal loot drops for standard, more common, gear. As for the rarer drops and better gear I would like it to be a bidding system where only the people who are able to use the item are able to bid for it. This would lead to people being able to progress their gear with personal drops, while the best gear would be obtained by the people who are most committed to getting the best items possible. 

Maybe instead lock off the boss fight zone when it begins or reaches a certain milestone (e.g. halfway through). This could also be used as a mechanic to increase difficulty or risk because you can't just run away if you're losing the boss fight.

But my main issue of course is that it is essentially just disabling PvP. I think if this game is gonna be based around PvP then it should reflect that in everything. So if we're not mechanically removing the option of PvP, then what? I like your idea of people leaving members outside, but what if you don't have spare members? And what about methods for stopping high level players from wrecking noobs?

My answer to the latter might be to scale levels in dungeons (good example of this is GW2, which scales level downwards in all maps if I remember corrrectly). Not really sure about the first one, though - maybe some advanced system to scale certain stats based on relative party composition (e.g. solo player with buffed damage and hp vs party of four players trying to gank)?

Edited by EmeraldSlash

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7 hours ago, EmeraldSlash said:

Maybe instead lock off the boss fight zone when it begins or reaches a certain milestone (e.g. halfway through). This could also be used as a mechanic to increase difficulty or risk because you can't just run away if you're losing the boss fight.

But my main issue of course is that it is essentially just disabling PvP. I think if this game is gonna be based around PvP then it should reflect that in everything. So if we're not mechanically removing the option of PvP, then what? I like your idea of people leaving members outside, but what if you don't have spare members? And what about methods for stopping high level players from wrecking noobs?

My answer to the latter might be to scale levels in dungeons (good example of this is GW2, which scales level downwards in all maps if I remember corrrectly). Not really sure about the first one, though - maybe some advanced system to scale certain stats based on relative party composition (e.g. solo player with buffed damage and hp vs party of four players trying to gank)?

I like your idea of locking the boss fight, that would definitely create some interesting situations of not being able to leave and being forced into fighting until the bitter end. However this could lead to more problems such as players waiting outside, if the inside players clear it they would most likely have not optimal health to engage in PvP.

Personally I feel that if a group is looking to do a raid without being able to leave people as guards they should be prepared for consequences. I enjoy the social aspects of mmos, and love to get groups of people together. If they really needed to i’m sure they could always just pay some other players to act as guards, people usually bend when some coin is put before them 😉

I could see a “raid-protection” system being implemented, where after a guild has completed a raid, all the participating members get temporary immunity from being killed, of course this would be disabled upon accepting a duel, entering a PvP zone, entering the PvP arena, or participating in a guild war in any way. This would prevent other guilds from being able to simply sit outside of dungeons and PK all the members upon their exit.

As for scaling the players i could understand scaling the numbers for all players to adjust between PvE and PvP however if you were to balance it poorly it could lead to uneventful PvP where people have very long TTK. As for scaling it to the number of people it could potentially lead to a huge group being unable to kill a solo just purely because he has been overscaled.

Of course this is all under a couple of very large assumptions. The first being open world combat. I believe the devs said that all PvP is through duels, guild wars, the PvP arena, or a PvP zone. The second is that there would be dungeons where players are able to freely enter as they please, along with having the ability to PvP inside of said dungeons. I personally hope all of these features come to reality, despite these all being very hard features to implement and balance properly. 

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I'm an advocate for engaging and challenging dungeon content that rewards exploration and possibly taking risks! I also think that while Need before Greed rolling has its issues, it's probably my favorite method of distributing loot within a dungeon setting (assuming it's a PuG).


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