Jump to content
Pudge

Penalty for losing in PvP

Penalty for losing in PvP ?  

46 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the Penalty be for losing to another player in Open world PvP / GvG / Continent Wars / Monarchy Wars ?

    • No dropped or broken items. Just a respawn time giving enemy players the time to achieve their objective ? (Making revive a big role in pvp)
    • Drops gear / items from your inventory at random and player is allowed to loot the items you drop ? After which you teleport back to your guild hall or the nearest Town ? (Making ganking a big role)
    • Gear breaks at random and player cannot loot your gear ? (causing a constant need for Gatheres and Crafters in the game ?)
    • Lose Hierarchy points toward the Monarchy system and ranked position in the game. (Making PvP a big part of the Monarchy race to be king / queen / prince/ duke / etc)


Recommended Posts

i wanna hear everyone's point of view here on this topic.... How should players be penalized for losing against other players in PvP ?

 

Edited by Pudge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same rules as albion, depends on the zone

 

If you're out in the Outlands, it's full loot

If you're in a "red zone", you'd need to have negative rep or flagged as an Outlaw to freely attack regular players and it's also full loot

If you're in a "safe pvp zone", you'd only lose some of your stuff etc

 


11.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Jessica said:

Same rules as albion, depends on the zone

 

If you're out in the Outlands, it's full loot

If you're in a "red zone", you'd need to have negative rep or flagged as an Outlaw to freely attack regular players and it's also full loot

If you're in a "safe pvp zone", you'd only lose some of your stuff etc

 

I dislike Albion Online PvP more than any other game however i will give the game it's dues as it is fun at times.... Ganking has ruined that game making gathering and crafting guilds quit, the game was dying 😛.

The free to play helped to bring a little stability to the lower Tier market but the higher tier market is still basically a sh*t show due to ganking in T6,7,8 zones.

If Oath can find a way to not make it a grind fest like albion online, i'll be down for full loot.

Edited by Pudge
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
2
36 minutes ago, Pudge said:

I dislike Albion Online PvP more than any other game however i will give the game it's dues as it is fun at times.... Ganking has ruined that game making gathering and crafting guilds quit, the game was dying 😛.

ganking is not what killed albion.

  • Like 6

QCpaHh6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, easy said:

ganking is not what killed albion.

What would you say killed it 😛

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Penalty for losing? So a low level player getting ganked by a high level player should lose something due to losing a fight they have zero chance of winning? That would sound like a policy to make people not ever want to play the game.

Would need some form of level compare system with diminishing returns. Too much of a level spread gives a penalty to the high level player if they initiated the fight (unfair to penalize the high level player if the lower level started the fight). Give diminishing returns to discourage camping a single player.

I guarantee there's no fair system that'll appease all parties and there are so many ways to cheat the rules.

With that said, I believe full loot would be one of the worst ideas. Spending months farming a dungeon a bajillion times to get an item only to lose it on your first PvP death. That would be a good way to have people not play

  • Like 2

2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Pudge said:

What would you say killed it 😛

Well considering I was the #1 killfame player in beta 2 off of solely ganking and only played to kill gatherers, ganking was definitely not the issue at hand. Ganking after the betas became extremely inefficient (gallop, AA timer after demounting, bubble zoning still working) and release ganking is the weakest the playstyle has ever been. 

Ganking and it's ramifications have a minuscule effect on the game - the larger issues at hand stem directly from SBI's incompetency when trying to make the game a long term project. For example, their seasons are a laughable excuse for "content" and there have been no meaningful content introductions since launch. The game is stale and died out very quickly due to the emphasis on "the 5 man" of every guild without any true content being available to regular players other than fame farming, gathering, or attempting to kill people openworld. 

The effects of people dying in the openworld for like 100 4.2 are virtually nonexistent and it's naive to believe ganking is the reason why a should have been successful game completely flopped. 

  • Like 6
  • Haha 1

QCpaHh6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Quasxen said:

Penalty for losing? So a low level player getting ganked by a high level player should lose something due to losing a fight they have zero chance of winning? That would sound like a policy to make people not ever want to play the game.

I see your point.. I'd recommend possibly making it so there has to be a level difference of below 10 to be able to fight each other... Level 10 cannot fight a level 20, but can fight a level 19.. And make it so the gap between levels aren't insane to wear a level 19 would absolutely destroy a level 10...

Maybe make armor scale every 5 levels so a level 10 player with level 10 armor can win in a fight against a level 19 in level 15 gear as he can't wear level 20 gear and isn't that much stronger.

 

34 minutes ago, Quasxen said:

With that said, I believe full loot would be one of the worst ideas. Spending months farming a dungeon a bajillion times to get an item only to lose it on your first PvP death. That would be a good way to have people not play

Honestly i couldn't agree more... But if there is no penalty then PvP becomes pointless as they just get back up and come at you until you log off and they win due to perseverance and not skill.
However Items on the markets would be dirt cheap if gear is never broken or dropped and crafters keep pooping them out lol.

The devs got their work cut out for them if they're going to try balance PvP and Crafting and the market lol. Maybe make silver acquirable by humanoid mobs and quest returns? No point a Wild Wolf dropping silver lmfao...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, easy said:

Well considering I was the #1 killfame player in beta 2 off of solely ganking and only played to kill gatherers, ganking was definitely not the issue at hand. Ganking after the betas became extremely inefficient (gallop, AA timer after demounting, bubble zoning still working) and release ganking is the weakest the playstyle has ever been. 

Ganking and it's ramifications have a minuscule effect on the game - the larger issues at hand stem directly from SBI's incompetency when trying to make the game a long term project. For example, their seasons are a laughable excuse for "content" and there have been no meaningful content introductions since launch. The game is stale and died out very quickly due to the emphasis on "the 5 man" of every guild without any true content being available to regular players other than fame farming, gathering, or attempting to kill people openworld. 

The effects of people dying in the openworld for like 100 4.2 are virtually nonexistent and it's naive to believe ganking is the reason why a should have been successful game completely flopped. 

Well i can tell you that a lot of Crafting and Gathering guilds all around the Royal Cities have quit, including 4 different guilds i joined, due to the insane number of gankers in the Outlands now compared to steam release. No point solo gathering anymore.
There isn't a realmgate portal that isn't camped by 6-7 gankers. Resource prices have tripled in value in all cities including Caerleon due to people being unable to gather safely unless in their own territory or in groups of 5 or more.

I do agree with your point tho, the game is literally a horrible "Create your own content" game now and is slowly dropping in daily members.

I'm just lol'ing around on games until Oath comes out to save me from all the dying mmo's haha

Edited by Pudge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like how they explained they planned on doing it, where you only drop trading packs if you have them


spacer.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, the PvP I actually did enjoy was the DAoC setup. The PvP was a completely separate set of zones that was completely optional. The only penalty for dying was you had to run all the way back out to join the fight again. It was more a reward system of gaining in PvP rank which allowed more skills. If you were of low level, well that was the risk you took because you really didn't have to be out there for any reason other than PvP (there were the battleground zones of an appropriate level available).

And with the three factions and keep sieges it made for some good nights of keep rotation and temporary alliances between the factions. But if I didn't have a lot of time to play and just wanted to do a few quests, I knew I could do them without threat of being ganked. Though later on they did add high risk, high reward quests that took place in the PvP zones.

Often I only have a limited amount of time to play, so I'd like to be able to enjoy it and feel like it was productive. Then the days I have more time, maybe scrounge a group together and do some PvP. I've never been a fan of the style of mixing PvP and questing zones, just doesn't work out for me due to rl factors these days.


2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well since the package with resources dropped is already a thing I feel like there doesnt have to be other penalties other than the fact that you have to run to your corpse or spawn at the nearest town/graveyard. You already lost a battle and now you lost some resources that you gathered a long the way, that should be enough. In GvG there is obviously the destruction of the clan castle and the looting of your stash too that will be another layer of "penalty" to losing a war.

Full loot will deter people from venturing into the PvP zones making PvP less likely to happen for those that adore the PvP aspect of the game this will decrease their number of fights per day. You will always get the hardcore PvPrs but the PvE/PvP or strictly PvE, "but I wanna take my chance at better resources" they will more than likely not venture into zones that have PvP enabled.

I hope the package stays and + a gy run or corpse spawning farther away or some timer when retrieving your corpse will be implemented but not something that is too harsh. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should have given an option for "Other"

Since I really don't know how looting/gearing is going to work in the game right now I can't vote for having a full loot or loot destruction system like AO. If its closer to AO where gear is pretty disposable then sure its not awful.

I wouldn't mind them just dying and teleporting back either a "Bind point" or the nearest city and possibly  having a short debuff that reduces pvp combat effectiveness. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2019 at 12:42 AM, Pudge said:

I dislike Albion Online PvP more than any other game however i will give the game it's dues as it is fun at times.... Ganking has ruined that game making gathering and crafting guilds quit, the game was dying 😛.

The free to play helped to bring a little stability to the lower Tier market but the higher tier market is still basically a sh*t show due to ganking in T6,7,8 zones.

If Oath can find a way to not make it a grind fest like albion online, i'll be down for full loot.

What you said completely misses the point of the post, and my reply.

Ganking doesn't hurt the game, you WILLINGLY go into full loot, dangerous zones in search of better materials, you being ganked, you can't blame that on the game, you blame yourself.

 

Different zones having different rules for loot is the best in my opinion, the higher tier is like blackzone, way more riskier but way more potential for rewards if you survive, zones like the blue zone have basic tiers but no open pvp, no risk, no rewards.

Zones like yellow / red have circumstantial risks, only if someone has the Outlaw job, is flagged for pvp, is in a pvp zone within that tile, then they can openly attack you, this zone has high end medium / low end high rewards like T4 - T6 in albion.

 

 


11.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jessica said:

What you said completely misses the point of the post, and my reply.

Ganking doesn't hurt the game, you WILLINGLY go into full loot, dangerous zones in search of better materials, you being ganked, you can't blame that on the game, you blame yourself.

 

Different zones having different rules for loot is the best in my opinion, the higher tier is like blackzone, way more riskier but way more potential for rewards if you survive, zones like the blue zone have basic tiers but no open pvp, no risk, no rewards.

Zones like yellow / red have circumstantial risks, only if someone has the Outlaw job, is flagged for pvp, is in a pvp zone within that tile, then they can openly attack you, this zone has high end medium / low end high rewards like T4 - T6 in albion.

 

 

I don't agree with full loot either.

In order to have full loot implemented in certain zones you would have to lower the gear cap the game has. Let's say you can reach "the best" gear or at least "softcap" gear in a week, then yea i agree it could theoretically work. Now Imagine if you had full loot in a game where the gear is extremely hard to obtain (BDO), some gear pieces in that game are literally worth thousands of hours of grind, now imagine dropping that. I don't think it's good to lower the gear cap however since players wouldn't have any long-term gear goal to work towards. So personally i hope they avoid full loot mechanics.

And if they actually wanted to implement that they shouldn't lock the end-game progression behind Open world full loot PvP zones. I think that's what Albion pretty much did? I'm not sure about that since i didn't get that far in that game.

Also it was said several times on discord that there should be only something like "higher drop rates" of certain rare materials, so hopefully it's fairly well balanced.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jessica said:

What you said completely misses the point of the post, and my reply.

Ganking doesn't hurt the game, you WILLINGLY go into full loot, dangerous zones in search of better materials, you being ganked, you can't blame that on the game, you blame yourself.

 

Different zones having different rules for loot is the best in my opinion, the higher tier is like blackzone, way more riskier but way more potential for rewards if you survive, zones like the blue zone have basic tiers but no open pvp, no risk, no rewards.

Zones like yellow / red have circumstantial risks, only if someone has the Outlaw job, is flagged for pvp, is in a pvp zone within that tile, then they can openly attack you, this zone has high end medium / low end high rewards like T4 - T6 in albion.

 

 

Maybe if drops would be more realistic it would be worth to implement that in 3D mmorpg big worlds (not like albion type of game..) What i mean by that ?

When you die, in battle you damage armor, breaks some parts so if you would wanna loot from some character his inventory after game you should have the penalties with it + when you remove his loot you do more damage to it.. so you had to repair that or if you couldn't you had to just dismiss to get a small % of materials which you need for creating for have it from something it.. Ofc repairs part would have same conditions like farm materials for fix and make it to original value as soon on so you couldn't just pick up and fight it with without consequences

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Linger said:

I don't agree with full loot either.

In order to have full loot implemented in certain zones you would have to lower the gear cap the game has. Let's say you can reach "the best" gear or at least "softcap" gear in a week, then yea i agree it could theoretically work. Now Imagine if you had full loot in a game where the gear is extremely hard to obtain (BDO), some gear pieces in that game are literally worth thousands of hours of grind, now imagine dropping that. I don't think it's good to lower the gear cap however since players wouldn't have any long-term gear goal to work towards. So personally i hope they avoid full loot mechanics.

And if they actually wanted to implement that they shouldn't lock the end-game progression behind Open world full loot PvP zones. I think that's what Albion pretty much did? I'm not sure about that since i didn't get that far in that game.

Also it was said several times on discord that there should be only something like "higher drop rates" of certain rare materials, so hopefully it's fairly well balanced.

 

But like in games with Albion with Full Loot in certain zones, you only take gear to those zones you can afford to lose. A singular continent in the game with unconditional full-loot I would be more than happy with even if the rest of the continents are just some of your inventory drops & you suffer equipment damage or something.

It all depends on how they do their numbers, if I can bring the best gear & be a complete and utter god to people in lesser gear & completely unkillable in that zone because my equipment far outweighs 15 guys in a lesser tier, then yes, there's problems there.

But if I can take a fight with one or two other guys in my team and kill someone who is in 2 or 3 tiers above mine, then I think that's okay.


11.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jessica said:

But like in games with Albion with Full Loot in certain zones, you only take gear to those zones you can afford to lose. A singular continent in the game with unconditional full-loot I would be more than happy with even if the rest of the continents are just some of your inventory drops & you suffer equipment damage or something.

It all depends on how they do their numbers, if I can bring the best gear & be a complete and utter god to people in lesser gear & completely unkillable in that zone because my equipment far outweighs 15 guys in a lesser tier, then yes, there's problems there.

But if I can take a fight with one or two other guys in my team and kill someone who is in 2 or 3 tiers above mine, then I think that's okay.

I think that ganking is a natural reaction to the game having full loot zones. And yea, you could argue that you should just bring the gear you can afford to lose, but how hard is it going to be to get that "gear you can afford to lose", maybe getting another full pair of equipment will be insanely hard and time consuming thus making it still very big loss if you were to die with it. Or you could be required to bring higher lvl gathering tools to mine materials there etc.. and those tools would be as well fairly expensive so it would be big loss upon death as well. 

I simply don't think it's a good idea to have it in a game, especially one that's not fully focused on PvP.

Also ganking might be fun if you do it to someone but losing let's say 30h of grind to 3 less skilled, less geared players is simply infuriating and full loot open world pvp is encouraging that. I'd rather see some type of "outlaw" system where PK players would be punished somehow for killing others, loss of xp or mby losing the materials you gathered in that zone etc.. Something like what BDO had with their karma system.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Linger said:

I think that ganking is a natural reaction to the game having full loot zones. And yea, you could argue that you should just bring the gear you can afford to lose, but how hard is it going to be to get that "gear you can afford to lose", maybe getting another full pair of equipment will be insanely hard and time consuming thus making it still very big loss if you were to die with it. Or you could be required to bring higher lvl gathering tools to mine materials there etc.. and those tools would be as well fairly expensive so it would be big loss upon death as well. 

I simply don't think it's a good idea to have it in a game, especially one that's not fully focused on PvP.

Also ganking might be fun if you do it to someone but losing let's say 30h of grind to 3 less skilled, less geared players is simply infuriating and full loot open world pvp is encouraging that. I'd rather see some type of "outlaw" system where PK players would be punished somehow for killing others, loss of xp or mby losing the materials you gathered in that zone etc.. Something like what BDO had with their karma system.

yeah but on the other side of coin, if they don't have full-loot zones and the rewards you get for kills is something like "pvp tokens" that you can spend at a pvp vendor, if said vendor is completely underwhelming then it kills the PVP community as there's no real reward for it, full loot negates that in which you earn what you kill ya know?


11.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jessica said:

yeah but on the other side of coin, if they don't have full-loot zones and the rewards you get for kills is something like "pvp tokens" that you can spend at a pvp vendor, if said vendor is completely underwhelming then it kills the PVP community as there's no real reward for it, full loot negates that in which you earn what you kill ya know?

I think that if you were to loot the materials the person gathers in that zone upon his death it would be fair. I think that The Divison had that? Some system that is rewarding and isn't overly punishing for the player. Of course if someone gathers for 2h and then dies to another player and that player loots everything he has gathered in those 2 hours, it would be his own fault for being too greedy and taking too big of a risk. 

A system like that sounds fair to me. Also to that pvp vendor argument, what if the pvp vendor isn't underwhelming and actually it would be worth killing players just for the tokens? Then i can see it working quite well as well.

Anyway i'd like to see some penalty for dying, not just the player who kills getting pvp token and the player who died not losing anything whatsoever. The materials gathered drop upon death could work quite well imo. Or there could be loses of xp etc..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Linger said:

I think that if you were to loot the materials the person gathers in that zone upon his death it would be fair. I think that The Divison had that? Some system that is rewarding and isn't overly punishing for the player. Of course if someone gathers for 2h and then dies to another player and that player loots everything he has gathered in those 2 hours, it would be his own fault for being too greedy and taking too big of a risk. 

A system like that sounds fair to me. Also to that pvp vendor argument, what if the pvp vendor isn't underwhelming and actually it would be worth killing players just for the tokens? Then i can see it working quite well as well.

Anyway i'd like to see some penalty for dying, not just the player who kills getting pvp token and the player who died not losing anything whatsoever. The materials gathered drop upon death could work quite well imo. Or there could be loses of xp etc..

The only reason I'd enjoy a PVP vendor is under two circumstances. 
1) In a full loot environment and the vendor is for purely cosmetic stuff to show PVP prowess via fancy hats or pets.

2) In a non-full loot environment and the vendor is a viable way to be rewarded for PVP, wheter it be materials, better gear upgrade etc.

 

But in both, there still needs to be a penalty for people dying in PVP, in full-loot that'd be you losing all your stuff.

In a vendor world, there's a private server called "Project Ascension" they also do their PVP death system nicely, you lose some stuff from your inventory & a chance to lose your equipment, but you can insure up to 2 or 3 pieces of equipment so they're never lost & that you lose gold instead. I could be behind a system like that aswell.


11.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jessica said:

The only reason I'd enjoy a PVP vendor is under two circumstances. 
1) In a full loot environment and the vendor is for purely cosmetic stuff to show PVP prowess via fancy hats or pets.

2) In a non-full loot environment and the vendor is a viable way to be rewarded for PVP, wheter it be materials, better gear upgrade etc.

 

But in both, there still needs to be a penalty for people dying in PVP, in full-loot that'd be you losing all your stuff.

In a vendor world, there's a private server called "Project Ascension" they also do their PVP death system nicely, you lose some stuff from your inventory & a chance to lose your equipment, but you can insure up to 2 or 3 pieces of equipment so they're never lost & that you lose gold instead. I could be behind a system like that aswell.

1) I think there is no reason for PvP vendor to exist in full loot environment, as you said maybe for some unique skins or cosmetics but that's about it. The loot you would get from players should be enough.

2) in a non-full loot environment i agree with you.

And i also agree that there should be some penalty for dying. Never heard about Project Ascension though and got no idea how their death system works for PvP.

Edited by Linger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...