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Kiwii

Grind for gear

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I am not sure whether this already has been discussed, but I would like to talk about the topic anyways.. I am suggesting that oath doesnt make you grind for gear and stats; only for cosmetics! The combat looks like great fun. I hope that being good at the game means skill with your class, rather than hours of grind you put into farming stats..

 

What do you guys think?

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Agreed, an approach like GW2's system would be nice. However im not against grinding for gear if the stat difference is minute, again pretty much like infusions for ascended gear in GW2.

 

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I actually enjoy the grind to get better gear, seeing myself progress as I improve at my class and get better gear at the same time. What is the point of playing if everyone is min-max from start. Farming for just cosmetics would also get boring really quick, which would be a shame with such a great combat system.

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I enjoy the grind as long as that grind isn't too extreme and doesn't always require you to group. My biggest gripe with games lately is they force you into group activities where, for me, I mostly like to run solo and its usually hard to find a group willing to take you especially if you've never run that boss fight before which is where gear disparity comes into play and people fall behind.

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Like Blake and Mako I too enjoy the grind though I 100% agree with you Kiwii it is very irritating seeing great players not being able to perform well just because of bad RNG that's why I'm still for the idea someone suggested previously with crafting where materials would have a quality to them as well as types of stats/effects making crafted gear less RNG oriented <Side note of the crafted gear, not all crafted gear should be end game potential sure some bits for certain classes could end up end game but definitely most pieces should come from quests, dungeons and raids>

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I strongly disagree with the "no grind for gear" concept. I believe people play MMOs for their persistence and progress over time (that's at least one of the biggest reasons I do), or else people would just play MOBAs, FPS/BR games. However, like mentioned before, I also believe that killing monsters and RNG should not be the only way for you to get BiS-ish gear. Other options to acquire top tier gear could be:

  • crafting: it's hard to layout a crafting system and I'm probably not able to, but there are plenty of good inspirations/ideas out there;
  • arena/battlegrounds/WvW/game driven PvP content: when you get enough "PvP Currency" you can use it to buy gear from a "PvP shop", so you could basically avoid grinding and RNG completely;
  • economy: buying the gear must be available in an Auction House (OSRS's Grand Exchange, best example IMHO) with the money you got from farming, gathering, mining, what have you (it's still grinding, but it's not RNG based).

I listed some alternatives to RNG, killing thousands of mobs and raiding (although I hope those are present and viable options to acquire end-game gear), hence why I strongly disagree they need to be removed, but make sure there are other alternatives for all tastes.

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18 minutes ago, BaSkA said:

I strongly disagree with the "no grind for gear" concept. I believe people play MMOs for their persistence and progress over time (that's at least one of the biggest reasons I do), or else people would just play MOBAs, FPS/BR games. However, like mentioned before, I also believe that killing monsters and RNG should not be the only way for you to get BiS-ish gear. Other options to acquire top tier gear could be:

  • crafting: it's hard to layout a crafting system and I'm probably not able to, but there are plenty of good inspirations/ideas out there;
  • arena/battlegrounds/WvW/game driven PvP content: when you get enough "PvP Currency" you can use it to buy gear from a "PvP shop", so you could basically avoid grinding and RNG completely;
  • economy: buying the gear must be available in an Auction House (OSRS's Grand Exchange, best example IMHO) with the money you got from farming, gathering, mining, what have you (it's still grinding, but it's not RNG based).

I listed some alternatives to RNG, killing thousands of mobs and raiding (although I hope those are present and viable options to acquire end-game gear), hence why I strongly disagree they need to be removed, but make sure there are other alternatives for all tastes.

Totally agree with you. I love to grind for my gear and that's why im playign MMORPG.

I dont want to play like a month to just can switch between shinning blue to green or purple...

The most important in a MMORPG is the progress of your character. It's taht RPG mean.

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I don't mind a grind (sorry for that but not sorry enough to edit it🙄) but I have never liked the idea that the only way to get the best gear it to do the hardest endgame content around.  For one reason or another not everyone can do that kind of content.  In my opinion someone who has invested just as many hours grinding mats and crafting hundreds maybe thousands of items should be able to craft something competitive with that endgame content.

If endgame content is the only way to get that gear then a small section of the player base will rush to endgame get the gear and then complain about being bored.  For the vast majority of players who take their time explore, craft, learn their class and profession the rewards should be just a great if not greater.  Why perhaps greater because I firmly believe the second group of players actually add so much more to the game than the first group.

So for me grind for gear in one form or another is fine.  Cosmetics to me are a bit meh.  Not that I have never spiced up my look mind you ☺️ it's just not what drives me to play.

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Grinding for gear is fine, as long the gear diference is not too big. Take exemple of BDO, grinding for gear is fun to grind to get to the *softcap*, but if you try to pvp as a *non softcap* player vs a softcap, you stand no chance, and this is what i dislike. dont make it too much of a big gap in between tier.

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Interessting reads here!

I think you are right. No grind at all isnt a solution. At least not for all game modes, which isnt what I had in mind in the first place. Pve, open world pvp etc: grind should be there. The extent is debatable. I would argue for rather less than more, since I dont enjoy it very much.

But I would argue that especially in more strucutred pvp modes there should be little to no grind for gear.

Similarly in gw2 you can grind for gear in pve and WVW to min/max, while spvp gear is totally free, you are max lvl, etc. In my opinion that is the best approach to take. People who enjoy grinding for gear can do that, while in the game mode where it should not matter, it doesnt.

 

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I'm much more in favor of grinding for gear, BUT I like set loot tables, and despise farming for RNG stat rolls on the same pieces. I'd much rather farm certain mobs/dungeons for the lower drop chance of the gear I want, so that when it finally does drop, it feels significantly satisfying vs seeing the same pieces ad nauseam and just praying to get one eventually with a good/great/god roll. 

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Yeah this is one of those big divisive topics in MMOs. Personally I'm over playing games that obsess over vertical progression, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I DO however expect the developers to eventually be really clear about what kind of game they're trying to build so folks can jump ship and stop following if they're not into it. I've got a busy life IRL and love MMOs for a place to play with friends and explore a world, I'm not interested in the virtual job approach some older MMOs (+BDO) took.

I'd heavily prefer a focus on horizontal progression with characters growing better at different things and more diverse rather than the constant treadmill of getting ever-stronger. GW2's system was brilliant imo, in many ways I think the game was great except for combat.

Edited by FeveredDreamer
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2 hours ago, FeveredDreamer said:

 the game was great except for combat.

I was totally on board except for the last three words 😜 I dont understand.. Was it the lack of trinity in the beginning that threw you off? Because now with specialisation and raids they do have niche roles developed for tanks, supports, healer, dps both condition and power.

Otherwise the combat is one of the best in mmos out there. Its the only part that kept me playing that game for longer..

But put this comment in ( ). Its not supposed to be a discussion on GW2. So dont bother aboout I guess..

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4 minutes ago, Kiwii said:

I was totally on board except for the last three words 😜 I dont understand.. Was it the lack of trinity in the beginning that threw you off? Because now with specialisation and raids they do have niche roles developed for tanks, supports, healer, dps both condition and power.

Otherwise the combat is one of the best in mmos out there. Its the only part that kept me playing that game for longer..

But put this comment in ( ). Its not supposed to be a discussion on GW2. So dont bother aboout I guess..

I really just can't play tab target games anymore. Even though GW2 walks the hybrid line (as does ESO) it is still at its core a tab targeting game. Broadly speaking I've just never found GW2's combat to be very fun, despite loving like every other aspect of the game. Beyond just the tab target issue, its also weirdly twitchy and heavily DPS focused, basically not my style 🙂

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18 hours ago, Kiwii said:

I see. Fair enough! You must be pretty excited for oaths combat then 😉

I really am. In many ways I think the components I want to see out of an MMO are all out there, just scattered across the current set of games. I LOVED the combat in BDO for example. Sadly the combination of endless vertical progression, P2W and garbage PvE made that beautiful system seem like a waste.  Ultimately who cares how great the combat system is if your stats (determined by grinding and P2W) decide the outcome of all battles after all.

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the grind should be there, but not to the extend that all great gear is locked behind pve/pvp interactions.
It would be cool if some gear or ''Extra stats'' would be atainable trough quest or task list.
This will add some interaction to the world and keep some parts of the game more active.
Instead of the raid entrance to be a hub of all, becouse everyone is there to git gud.

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